Monday, September 15, 2008

Interesting Interview

You need to watch this YouTube of Pastor Baucham. The issue of having a woman in one of the highest offices in the country (and the world) is becoming a very hot topic in the church. Weighing out a pro-life view vs. the biblical role of a woman is making us all think....and talk.


Jennifer said...

He had really good points (all of which I've always agreed with) and I didn't like how she kept trying to make the Bible fit into "today's working families". As strongly as I feel about women not being in leadership in the church, I'm honestly frightened of what our country would become if Obama gets in the Oval office.

Valerie said...

Okay this has really got me thinking today. I thought Pastor Baucham did a beautiful job of pointing his viewpoint back to the word of God which we need not defend, correct? I hated how the lady on there (can't recall her name) took that Ephesians passage out of context. That of course is the way of the world and why we as believers need to know our Bibles. I thought it was wonderful that the news anchor said she would go home and read her Bible that night. I pray that she did.

I have some very mixed emotions about this whole Sarah Palin thing. First off I have to admit she is so refreshing and I agree with a lot of what she says and echo Jennifer's fears about Obama being our next president and what that would mean for our country. Yet, my Mother's heart says she needs to be available for all her children especially an infant (with special needs I might add) and a teenage daughter who is entering a very challenging role as a Mom and wife at such an early age. How can Governor Palin do that while campaining?

The next question which I discussed with my husband is do the roles that God set up for marriage and the church follow into the world and politics? He had a great response. If we say woman can be in leadership of our country and not in the church? Are we saying they are inferior spiritually and can lead when it does not involve spiritual matters? Or does God set things up the way He does as He knows we are made differently and woman are not meant to be leaders over men in any situation? Again very thought provoking.

On a personal note. I do value my role as a wife and Mother and most days :-) love it. It is not an inferior role but a very important one. Yet, I do feel the pressure to do "something more" with myself. I know in my head and most of the time in my heart this is God's calling to me and am content and yet as I hear more of the rhetoric of how sexist it is to say a woman should stay home I find myself wondering if I am a whimp that I don't feel I could have a career and run a household. For heaven's sake look at all the woman that are. This whole thing just stirs up a lot inside of me. Can you tell? :-)

Jennifer said...

Valerie, I hate that the world (Satan, really) has made women feel that they are inferior and not living up their potentials by staying at home. I've heard women say "Well, I spent x years in college and worked really hard to get where I'm at in my can I give all that up just to stay home??" JUST?! We are raising our children to be God-fearing believers, to make this world a better place, to be disciples of Christ. I heard a home-schooling mom explain her reason for doing so like this: It's not b/c other kids are sinful and I want mine to be kept away from them. MY kids are the ones that are sinful and I want to teach them the responsibilities and respect so they can go out and be good influences to those around them (not a direct quote, but you get the gist). This whole thing stirs up a lot inside of me too! :)
My Dad explained it (Palin) like this (and I apologize for having such a long comment!): "Voddie was right on, period. Deborah was in leadership and even put together an army but why did she have to do it? Because as we are today, men (good Christian men) take the backseat and are whimpy and do not take the roles that they should which leaves a gap that someone has to fill and more and more women are filling them. Sarah is a Deborah, we are a nation in judgment (look at the financial collapse, housing, huge banks that no one would have ever thought would be going down) and at the same time look at what we are doing with Israel - forcing them to give up their land for "peace" and it has been tried many times before and has not worked and will never work, when God promised the land to her, and when we (U.S.) try to get her to give it up, we (U.S.) will not prosper and will fail. Bush reads the Bible and yet he and Rice are behind pushing this agenda - why? I admire a pastor who does not back down from scripture even when he is being made fun of and humiliated, and he did say it perfectly that he doesn't interpret scripture so that it comes in line with what people are thinking today, he interprets it as it was written. Had we had a strong Christian man running instead of McCain, he would not have had to pick Palin, but because McCain is a weak social conservative, he had to pick her in order to get the base back. So to answer, I believe the same as Voddie, she is strong prolife, we can not elect (Barack) Hussein (Obama), and just pray that she will help get this country back to the roots that we once had and stop this foolish disastrous agenda with Israel and start protecting her instead of trying to get her sworn enemies to sleep in her bedroom...."
I admire my father greatly and he has a lot of wisdom. I thought what he said was very true. I won't leave any more lengthy comments! Sorry!!

flowerpot said...

Even though we're conservative at our house, my husband was surprised to hear me say that it is a baaaad idea to have a woman in leadership of our country (or any country for that matter). God has a reason for all of His decisions. He says women should be in a position of submission (not subserviant) and under the authority of a man.

What about Sarah Palin's gifts and talents, some ask. Use them according to scripture ... "lead a quiet life, work with your hands, do not gossip, let older women lead you, care for your family, invest wisely", and all the other listings of Prov 31. I think God gives all of us women immense capabilities. We can use them according to scripture or we can use them according to our own desires.

I am very blessed in that I work from a home office and my husband is my boss. The "evangelical leader" in this youtube clip advocates taking Eph 5 and making it fit our society. I cannot do that. I have to make my life fit scripture, no matter how painful or frustrating it may be.

If you view life through the lens of modern western society, the gospel is "sexist". If you view life through the lens of the bible, the gospel is life and peace and freeing as a woman. I would rather be blessed by Christ for following his plan when it doesn't make sense than to follow my own thoughts because it does make sense.
Prov 19:21 "Many plans are in a man's heart,But the counsel of the LORD will stand."

Demanding an infinite God to make sense to a finite mind is an exercise in frustration.

flowerpot said...

Boy, we are verbose today! :) I forgot to add, in the midst of my rant, that I really like Sarah Palin. I was so jazzed to read about her history and her convictions. I was truly astounded at how the feminists and the liberals have evisterated her. Wow.

Anyway, I'll be quiet now. :)

Anonymous said...

Wow! that was so cool! thanks for posting that. hope you all are doing well.

The Nahid Family said...

As I watched this video, I understand the viewpoint of the Pastor, but I feel that he is taking the scripture totally out of context without even being aware that he is doing that. I sensed a general disdain for the woman whom he was debating, and I just didn't sense the love that I feel should be there from a pastor.

So, I was saddened by this. It is so true what Titus 2 says, that a woman IS to be the keeper of her home. But, again, as I said before, that can be defined in different ways, depending upon the culture you are in. In biblical times, being a keeper of the home meant that you had helpers to whom chores were delegated oftentimes.

In other countries still to this day, the mothers have maids and servants living within their homes to help in raising children, cleaning, cooking, etc. It is virtually unheard of that the mother does all of these things.

Being in Ethiopia for the adoption of our daughter really opened my eyes in a major way to these truths. Most of the world does not view motherhood in the way we have come to know it. Only when we think that America is the be-all and end-all to motherhood can we say that a mother's main and only role is in the home. The pioneering spirit in our country I believe brought this about, when women were isolated in the wild country and had to survive, yet, that is not the way the biblical writers saw being a wife and mother. It was out of necessity that this kind of mothering was born.

So, knowing the truth that most mothers in the world would feel very surprised out our independent spirit of mothering and wifing, how does that change our view? Does that mean that we American or Westerners have mothering right and all others are wrong?

Being a Titus 2 woman is far more about your heart as a mother than it is the physical role that one feels. Some women choose not to breastfeed their babies simply because they are uncomfortable doing so. Are they being selfish? Many proponents of breastfeeding such as myself would like to say a resounding "YES!" But can I say that as a believer in the Lord? Can I say about another Christian woman that if she doesn't use the breasts God gave her to feed her baby that she is certainly shortchanging him and that she is not following the way God created her?

You see where the reasoning leads us? Breastfeeding is a beautiful thing, no doubt, and has major benefits, but it is NOT a salvation issue whatsoever. It is not EVIL for a woman to decide against breastfeeding. This turns into "judging" so easily if we are not extremely careful.

In Jesus Christ, there is NO condemnation. Only God knows the heart. He knows what He has called us to do in this world and what we were to fulfill.

Think of Hannah. She literally gave her son up to the temple at age of 3-5 or so. She didn't raise this son. Was she a selfish woman to let the priest raise her son and not herself? Not at all! It was God's will for her! Can you imagine the looks and sneers she may have received from doing this from other mothers? "How can she do that?" "She must not care about him!"

The lady in this video made an absolutely beautiful and true point about the husband laying his life down for his wife. The husband is the covering for his wife. She is under his covering, and if he encourages her to walk in an honorable path using her gifts, then she is covered. It doesn't matter what anyone else thinks. That is between her and her husband and the Lord.

Hope this is helpful to you and others. I never thought I would be so passionate about this, especially since I am a stay at home mother. Blessings to you!